Dec 1, 2012 5:00am PST
fiscal cliff which i think is more of a mole hill than a mountain. but i think that that's where we may end up. i think we may see some more drama as a result of that. >> reluctant to raise taxes, but i'm cautiously optimistic that i'm seeing people pull away from grover norquist and hold onto the mantle of reagan and he raised taxes. corker saying i'm not beholden to grover nor quest and i'm beholden to my constituency. i see some movement. the cutting of programs is going to be a different story. >> i don't think anybody wants to cut programs. republicans don't because they're now in what they consider the rebuilding mode, but the challenge is going to be that there are democrats -- if you take a look at some of these tax issues, estate taxes, the president is not going to have unified support from the house on that issue because he's going to lose most likely the congressional black caucus, he'll lose representatives of farming states because it's going to decimate -- >> it is not going to decimate. that is an absolutely dick cue louse overstatement. >> let's look at it this way. loo
Dec 2, 2012 5:00am PST
of that movement. in this past election, facing a fiscal cliff of its own, the prospect of trigger cuts, if they didn't adopt proposition 30 if they raise taxes. they decided to go for the tax increases and that's because they saw what that austerity could mean. you really have to do both. we talk about the investments and the costs. >> please. >> i was going to say, the federal level, one of the things we saw in 2000, i know you want to keep taxes and spending separate, but i think we shouldn't. what we have seen is a great pitch to reduce taxes. again, i'm in favor of it. the route to great economic growth. that being said, it is not true, even with the best tax cuts when you spend like a drunken sailor, which happened under the republicans. if you cut taxes and increase spending, that's the equivalent of raising taxes in the future. i think it's key to keep those together. >> bruce, do you think there's a case to be made to fellow conservatives about raising taxes here? >> yes. first of all, the -- one of the problems with the norquist if you raise the taxes, there's -- she's incorrect.